The Marketing Futurist Podcast

Mind-blowing inspiration to create and innovate

This is your futurist advantage!

mary-kathryn-johnson
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With your hosts:

Mary Kathryn Johnson & Kelly Garrett

Ep015: What Can You Learn From Justin Hartzman, CEO of the World’s First Robo-Agency?

Show Transcript:

00:01 – Welcome back, Marketing futurist. Today we have a very special guest named Justin Hartman. He is the CEO and Co founder of needles. I’m a very exciting tool that I want you all to learn about. So welcome Justin. Thank you so much for being here.

00:20 – How special guest I am. Certainly am passionate about this stuff up about marketing and the future of that are really, I believe we’re taking the first steps of a long path where we’re going to have to go, happy to speak about that same share my opinions, for wherever their work.

00:39 – Yeah, absolutely. Well, there’s your, there’s a reason you’re here for sure. So, why don’t you just give us a little bit introduction to yourself and your company that you have now and then we’ll dig a little deeper into the past.

00:52 – Absolutely. So, as I said, I’m the CO founder and CEO. He goes thought call a Loc dot column for some reason, but it’s called needles. I don’t know why. Just so you know how to get that spelled. M, e e d e l s.com. Intentional misspellings, because I’ll tell you why the name came from in a second, so what we’ve understood is there $65, million small businesses on the facebook platform, but only 5 million of those are using the ad platform today, the marketing platform, the platform, because the status quo options are either too difficult to do it yourself. You spend a lot time and hence a lot of money when you don’t do a good job where as most people fail at it or going to a typical digital agency which is super expensive and as micro advertising was that community is made up of.

01:37 – They don’t have the ability or time to spend with you to actually perform a great campaign because human capital is very expensive, so we set ourselves out to be completely different with the Internet’s first Robo Agency and I have no actual facts to back this next statement out, but I’m pretty sure I’m accurate. We the quickest, the fastest growing and largest digital agency in the world. Now. We have over 675 paying users on our platform. If you think about that at a typical digital agency, they’d have one account manager to every six or seven accounts, maybe up to 10. We’ve gone to every 350 really scalable solution. And what we’re doing is three specific things is the creating the targeting and the optimization of digital advertising on social media for you. So in six simple questions, we know who you are, who you want to sell to, and what it is that you’re selling.

02:30 – We create 50 to 500 eyes in real time. We deliver them to the network. So that’s the creation part. Super simple. It can take three minutes, you can take up to an hour if you really want to spend the time and work with our teams to do it. But it was very quick and then you’re done. But what we do next and where we stand out is our intent technology. And this is where our name came from, comes from. So I’m happy to explain that in a second is we’re looking and identifying your potential buyer, perfect customer and a completely different way. And that way is specifically with intent to purchase a similar point. Whenever someone says on facebook, my tooth hurts, what do I do? We know that they have a problem with they see a dentist and we can show them an ad in real time.

03:16 – So ideas to identify needs within social media posts where needles, the root comes from or identifying those needles in the social eight staff. So it’s that double entendre, double meaning there that the name came from. And, we, we love what we’re doing anywhere in the initial steps of growing this great big business and platform for the future. And we see a lot more going down that road. I know we’ll talk about it in some other questions, but long story short, I’m a serial entrepreneur. I’ve been fortunate enough to have two prior exits in the social media and content space previously. And I went for the last, 12 years with my current co founders who have known, for since we were six years old. So we’re a tight group of guys that have done all this together. What I’ve been doing is selling other people’s online businesses, so if you had a ecommerce site or a blog or a software as a service, we sell to fortune companies, private equity firms, portfolio holders.

04:18 – So I’ve played for understanding the boutique deal between a million dollars in Ebitda and $50 million dollars in Ebitda and signed up for other people like ourselves who was a market that was underserved and that’s what we’re always looking for as myself, my co founders to find the gaps in the market for this huge group of people that doesn’t usually get a targeted because there’s greater dollars going upstream, but we understand that the long tail downstream is the future and we’re wanting to be the ones who build the tools for that log might be a harder path to swim upstream. Were willing to do it for the time, effort, and energy into it. But that explains a little bit for you guys.

05:00 – Absolutely. And you’ve hit on it even just a few minutes in the long tail. I was, I was talking to my husband yesterday, all of our interviews, we, I mean personalization is, is the way of the future. That’s the way it is with marketing. So yeah, I’m so excited that you can see it either if you go and you’ll talk.

05:20 – Large Corporation doesn’t have the income down to the ones smallest go upstream or downstream. It’s all about not only marketing automation but account based marketing automation. So the fact is it’s not general across the board. We’re trying to capture what is the, you know, the drip, what is the marketing message we want to say to them, how do we want to do it and do it very account based. So you’re right, it has to be personalized because these old tricks and running tricks, but just old habits, it was learned from them. We understand what a cold email is when we see it called email. We understand that that phone call is just, you came up in a list that they purchased somewhere else that doesn’t work for what were we coming? I don’t want to say smarter, but I think more informed and more educated consumers that we exist on every level. Consumers as a consumer, consumer, as big corporations, it’s the same thing. So how do we personalize that?

06:14 – Wow. And I’ve got it, if I can jump in really quickly because what you’re, what you’re saying, especially with the personalization and you talk about a phone call. No matter what we have to. You’re right, we all know those cold calls. We all know those templates, scripts that we get all the time. And that we immediately delete or don’t accept. Now. How can you scale and automate something that’s personalized?

06:41 – Well, yeah, you have to be a smarter, more strategic, but I’m not saying they don’t work because they do and we employ them and other people do, but it’s not traditional like, hey justin, you know, because they know my name and my email and they pick it out and then they just go on. Like you actually have to get in there and you have to do some research. You have to provide a, you have to create that relationship. And how do you create that relationship, is, is not really auto, you actually have to do some leg work and then you can use that to automate it in the future. So, it’s a tough nut to crack, but those were doing it. Those were innovating on other ones that are really stepping up and out. So, we have some cool tricks that we’re about to employ and try, which I think we’ve done on a small scale that we’re going to do on a larger scale now and maybe that’s the next time will tell you when we come back. So it’s new email strategy, because the one two punch sort of thing that we’re going to be doing a, I’ll talk to that next time we speak and tell you how those results like that, that I think it will be a cool case study to talk about.

07:47 – Absolutely. That sounds exciting. So what, what kinds of major obstacles have you come across? I just feel like someone in your position who has a lot of experience and background and now you’re doing something super successful and you’ve had to have come across some things along the way that have just some things on the way.

08:04 – Well, let’s reframe that. There are certainly dark days every, all the time, whether it’s every single day for a week or for a month. The bright gays are the ones that, you’re always trying to strive for. But if this. I said this all the time, probably in every interview, if this was easy, everybody would be doing it. The fact is that the best things in life come on the opposite side of fear. So when you take that next step and you keep moving, you keep wanting to do it. You’re going to be able to achieve the goals that you have. And the fact is, I am of the school that keep telling me it can’t be done. I’m going to keep preaching how it couldn’t be done and I’m not going to let down. I have the craziest willpower in the world when I want to have something happen, like if I was in a five year for five years now, I haven’t eat carbs or sugar drink, the five days of the week.

08:57 – I’ll only eat them on weekends. You know, that just for health benefits, for things like that while you’re bringing might go loopy. You’d have to find a way to actually fight through that and make it happen. People said I couldn’t do it for a week. Well, I’m five years later and I don’t think that I’m ever going to start. Well, I hope I never going to stop. So just as, even in business, the fact is, early on in the day someone told me that, maybe these were the exact words, but you really wouldn’t amount to anything. You don’t have the pedigree, the background, the history, and that all that has done has motivated me to, not only worked very hard and figure it out, but to surround myself with the team of smarter people than myself to bring me up and helped me get to the goals that we’re looking for.

09:40 – And I think that’s super important in everything that you do is to hire smarter to partner smarter, smarter, and, some of that change for me. And we’re kind of getting on a tangent here. I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but I thought a really knew everything really know. Sold two companies. I had two successful businesses isn’t prior to starting needles. I really didn’t want to listen to when I thought I knew everything. I, I’ve seen it, I’ve done it, I’ve been there. And, I had a mentality shift just in one single action that happened. We joined an accelerator in Milwaukee called generator. There’s one in Minneapolis. They also have a in Madison now. So it’s growing. It’s a great accelerator, very boutique, five people per cohort. And we have, they want us to come back. Actually came after us.

10:31 – I’m like, oh, this is good. You know, I’m talking to, came to me. They want me. But what’s in Milwaukee? I’m from Toronto, Canada. I know nothing about it. Well, I know where it is and understanding what it means. Nothing to me. I don’t even know the texting. And I said, you know, no, I’m not doing this. Eventually they cornered me enough to do it because realize that I have an office 5,000 square feet. I had people working in our company. We all are. My Co founders had children under the ages of one years old. We have mortgages in our houses here. And again, I thought I knew everything. So I said, absolutely not. I said, just come down and meet with us. I think you want to do it. I look to book a ticket. It was $2,000. I’m like, I’m not spending my company’s money on it.

11:10 – I don’t want to do excited to be there. The very next day, a 15 minutes later, I had a ticket and a hotel room in my email. They wanted me to come. I went down. Long story short, they hardly even showed up for the meeting. I talked to him on the walk back to the train station, take my other 12 hours are at home, all these stopovers and I told them no. I got back and I said, okay, here’s our last attempt. We’re going to ask you to call any of our portfolio companies. We’re not going to say which ones you choose to go to our website and ask for the people you know, the CEO’s view on the knees before him call them. We made one call. It was just awesome. Second call, third call. It was a no brainer. We’re going there and I said, we’re going to do this and we’re going to make this leap and you know, working the up six percent of our company think of a for $20,000.

12:00 – It’s nothing. We use a. all that dollars were going to spend our time to be there renting condos or apartments that our family could come with us. Literally $20,000 went into our living expenses. He said, let’s go understanding that we don’t know everything we did. Our company would be triple the size right now and the day we went down there to the Lebanon, our, a car right down and took all our stuff with us, which I did a lot of back and forth. You have to imagine flew in, drove, which was crazy, period. We went, let’s go in. Let’s take the advice of people who are smarter than us and it’s been a full shift for us as we move forward. So, I know you asked about some things that happened, but I think the real, the real lessons from what’s done, what I can bring to you guys is, pretend you know nothing. Bring it all and take it all with a grain of salt. There’s going to be days that people are going to shit on your head or your idea, whatever. That’s okay. That’s all right. Because guess what, that’s why they’re not doing it. That’s why you’re doing it. So just keep working at it, keep it, and don’t ever let anyone tell you he’d say no long story, but I hope that made sense.

13:11 – Well, and that’s what. Thank you for that because that is probably how you can have a futurist advantage. One of the ways which is to say I don’t know everything. There are people who know more than I do in certain areas and I need to go learn from those people that were the case to be honest with you. Just that’s exactly why you’re here because we really do feel that way about you.

13:38 – So appreciate that. Maybe the best person, but I do have a little bit of insight. One of my super powers to that, and I think this is one of my superpowers is, and it’s good and bad. It’s always for good is that I see a thousand steps ahead and understand where we can go and where I need to be or where our company needs to be. And I forgot that there’s all that stuff that happens in the middle of it sometimes and I see it now. So things like technology can’t keep up with that or we don’t have the team to execute all the strategies all at one time. But that’s something that I think is a great takeaway, is understand where you want to be at the end and work your way backwards and understand that that goal is always changing. So you can’t stop thinking about.

14:27 – You can’t stop iterating on it when you hear something coming up, you know. There is, when we started needles, chatbots were nothing, you know, like it didn’t exist or you know, a playgroup that we knew about them, but now it’s all the rape. What. So my strategy goes, how do we incorporate that into a marketing strategy through an automated platform like ourselves and three years from now, because while it’s hot right now, it’s not commercialized the way that it could be. It’s not automated. We don’t even have the tools yet to do it. But what can we do to aid that or make the tools to allow that to happen? So that’s always where I’m going. When people asked me what my job is here at, he knows, I say a couple things. One is I’m the janitor. I pick up all the shared too is um, I’m the ideas guy, the future thinker, the one that’s going to go, where do we go? You know, we’re a service offering now that’s unbelievable. There’s a desperate need for, for our community, but we can be an even bigger platform as we go forward. And that’s kind of where I see the future. I think we’ll talk about that in a little bit of where I see the automated marketing going and what that will look like in years to come from now.

15:40 – Yeah, absolutely. And never just, like you said, never been comfortable with that vision. It’s always reassessing and realizing that even as you get closer to it, it’s going to go further and keep things that you think are going to be great, are going to fall off and they’re not gonna be good and understand that strategy for it. So just always be learning. Always Watch for what’s coming next, you know, do a lot of reading and listen to a lot of people who are smarter than you and see what’s going on. You know, the thing is you don’t have to be the smartest person in the room. You can synthesize from the smartest people. You can build your own smarts, you can build your own book. That’s really exciting for other people to learn from in the future.

16:18 – Right? Yeah. And you know, I think you, that to me says you’re a futurist. If you want to know, you know, everybody that’s watching. If you want to know how to be a future as just listen to what Justin’s doing because I think that’s the true sign of somebody who’s really got a pulse on what’s, what’s going to be happening and has the flexibility to, you know, to kind of make the changes as you go as well.

16:40 – Just never say no. Always looking. I’ve said no to a lot of things that we will come back and go, well I guess that’s a yes. Now you know, you have to go down that road story you just told is one of them and you know, I mean talk about not being able to market themselves very well if they didn’t even present themselves very well to you. And when you actually came down there weren’t really there. And then when you dug in and actually called people who had utilized that, uh, that accelerator, it was obviously explained to you that it was a no brainer to do it no matter how the marketing was for these people.

17:13 – So just to back it up for one second, when I bought it at two in the morning or 9:00, meeting with them the next day, they didn’t show up until 9:45 and it had it been on a train. It’s kind of thought the hotel at two in the morning because they booked it on their credit card. The hotel would lead me into the rooms and have a copy of that credit. So after like a little bit of truffle, like two in the morning and I’m like, not like the most easy going guy in the world when it comes to that sleep and have stuff going on or ever. I got there and I’m like, fine, whatever, just take my credit card, book the room, I’ll get them to pay me with. It ended up that the owner of that hotel and a lot of others became an investor in our company.

17:55 – So it was always a small world. He’s like, I actually heard that story a couple of weeks, but I know that was you. I’m like, oh, shoot, you know, but passed by luck and you becoming an ambassador. He goes, no, I understand. I totally get it. You become actually a great sounding board. One the nicest man I’ve ever met in my entire life, only looking out for our success and it’s been an unbelievable experience and I recommend anyone to look into a generator a while it might not have the name of y combinator does or techstars. We’ve been pieces of those were there options for us. I really need the why do you want to go to, and it might be a step on some toes here, uh, to a accelerator where you’re part of a group of 75 people all going after the same one. And then when your group of five, we get the attention your fish in a barrel at that point they know they kicked you out of hundreds of thousands of applications. Our investors are really looking for that. So, um, I’m a big proponent of a, well maybe not being going to the top top, but again, going down the scale a little bit too, you better programs. In my opinion.

19:01 – Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. So take us through. You meant you just kind of touched on a couple of things. Like you said, where the market’s going, where marketing is going, where these tools are going, we can’t let you off without jumping into that. So because that’s what we’re here for. So take us through that. What do you see as the future of marketing? Where do you see these tools going?

19:21 – Well, I really believe and if you speak to a lot of people that it’s not getting any easier at ground level. So if you went to facebook itself, we can talk organic free. It doesn’t work anymore. What we used to be able to do five years ago, posting articles and having go viral by getting more people interested, they’ve kind of removed that ability to go to page. So we know that paid marketing, paid advertising, which is under the same umbrella on social. It’s something that you have to go to, but you think over time that will get easier. That’s anti truth, you know, the fact is it’s only getting harder. It’s getting more difficult. It’s getting more crowded as you know, companies like us or they do a better job getting to it and they just make it harder because really what they’re planning for is to help the big guys, a million plus dollar budgets a day, the tools for them.

20:12 – So it’s a hard wind. So what I see in the future is a companies like ours and there’ll be other ones that do different things that helped to fully automate that process on their behalf and that might not be a grandchild or agree, but the reality is how is that done? How does that work in a law that’s going to come from the Ai Community? And it’s not the deep, deep ai the other people talk about, but it’s understanding these delivering processes and automating functions that would typically have done by human in the past to remove that barrier and decrease the cost of availability of things that weren’t there previously. So, you know, my futures, futures view of this is, and again, this is not only my idea, I brought up from a couple people and I work with them or doing a little summit ourselves or a little speaking series about it.

21:03 – I think in November I won’t be here, but my team’s going to go and talk on behalf of this is kind of this, this agency of the future where you can sit at your computer or in your, you’re at home and he had talked to a lot. So you’re talking to Google home. We talked to Siri and say, you know what, I want to go spend $500 this month. I want to promote our company, which you know about, you should know about everything that’s going on. Here’s the kind of things that I want to make an offer of a. and here’s the messaging that I think will work very well from my community. And from there, it’s the creation of the ads, the landing page, built right into the crm system to the email provider so that I can go build out each of those pieces for you to have the campaign.

21:52 – So you had your car, you have your head of the funnel bringing in traffic, even he knows you have your crm system built in. So when you bring that lead in is captured, you have the proper landing page that is built for, you know, a mogul, which is a huge thing is or go to a chat Bot that it captures it. So all those pieces get automated in the way that you sit back and have to really do nothing. And this is for everyone out there, not only just the big boys, which will never happen because they use a lot of emotion and what they’re doing because the fact is they have a David, obviously they have a brand they have to think about because everyone does. But the Coca Cola is of the world, the Nike’s of the world, they’re invoking emotion. That emotion comes from their team.

22:40 – And their huge marketing budgets come in and say, we want this campaign. I’m talking more the actual people out there who want to go, I need to drive more business to my business and my only action is not brand awareness necessaty necessarily, but to drive a lead in a sale and that’s where I think it’s really going to come in and that’s the way the feature as we look at it, a step out of it, have to have nothing understand it all for you on your behalf. I’m sure there’ll be inputs here, there for the next little while, but really have that spoken conversation and the natural language to do it because I really believe that it will continue to go this direction. Even the future. The more natural that you can be in your marketing, the more I say all the time, again, kitty cats and butterflies that you post and show off what you’re doing.

23:30 – You know you’re beautiful wedding cakes. They’re have a professional photographer coming out the wedding. I have a picture of you creating that cake there. That’s what’s going to serve the need on the SMV or sme side of things, which I think, and I don’t think I know is the future for these companies. The fact is they’re going to tap it at some point, a huge budget. Companies at facebook, there’s greater dollars in aggregate in the smaller size businesses, the micro advertisers. They’re going to have to get there. So were you like to be ahead of that right now? And be the guys to do it because they need to. Salesforce, which they don’t have any advancement, which they don’t have. Let’s be that, you know, one day hopefully might be a strategic purchase for that when we unintended or moving the needle.

24:17 – Wow. The large businesses that I always think about is that they’re, they’re making, they’re needing to take marginal actions. They’re needing to make marginal impact for small businesses were out here and we need to do our entire marketing. We need to have huge impact. And I think that’s a huge difference in the way.

24:42 – At the end of the day we look at it and well, we are not just wanting to be altruistic and we are for profit company and we’re looking for who’s returns, if I was, we know that our needs returns in our growth, comes on the back of helping small business, the middle of the economy grow more food on their table, more jobs, create more taxes are paid because of that. So it’s a win, win, win across the board. And growing that is super exciting. Like I just got out of the meeting previous to this where we donated one percent of our company called the upside foundation in Canada back to helping do those things when we are exit. That’s super important to us and you know, a part of the future. Well not marketing is, is being that way is, you know, giving back, having the culture created with Mcrobbie where they can help to, uh, provide those results and give back to the people around them. So I think that’s a really fun thing that we’re embracing now and help us to, you know, be more proud of our community and help these for the future as we continue to move forward.

25:41 – Yeah. I just keep saying, wow, because I just, every time when you’re talking about these things, I mean, I see all of the, the growing pains that will need to happen before we get to that point where I can just tell Alexa what I want and give her a list of things that I need and everything is talking to everything else and integrated so that it gets developed the way I want it to be developed. So there are so many little pieces that need to fit into that. But I know there are people listening in the audience and other people that you’ve connected with that we will connect with, that we’ll be able to fit those pieces together in that puzzle. And it will be here before you know it.

26:21 – That’s another thing, he, which has to happen as we continue to grow. We all have, often we think with them, but the times when it comes to marketing, it has to be data driven and that’s a huge thing to look into the future. We know, we see it all the time. We see ad sets that people create a on our platform and the best performing ads are ones that have spelling mistakes and emotionally I’d be like, I will never let that out of our shop here, but that’s not often the case. So let the data decide. And I think a big thing, a big takeaway there aren’t bringing weed. No, you only on my platform or you know, our platform, not mine. You have the property, that team, they’re the ones who do this. As well as anyone else’s out there. This stuff takes time.

27:08 – There’s no magic bullet to it. You can’t have unreal expectations. The best marketer in the world, if you could pay the millions of dollars to spend your $500 budget, they still can’t do things overnight. Repetitive. You have to do the testing of it. You have to give it time and eventually you’re going to get to that spot where you have a repeatable longterm campaign in the marketing realm that’s going to be profitable for you, but there is a time, money investment to get you there and it’s only going to get longer. It’s not going to get shorter and go away because of network and the basis of doing that. And that’s a huge piece that we have to educate our consumers and we’re learning how to do that in a more, in a better way as we’re learning about it. You know, it’s just unreal expectations that don’t, that don’t, that don’t allow anyone to get where they want.

28:00 – And that’s where the biggest waste of money comes from. And I’ll give you two. I want to give you my staff. So giddy. Facebook’s a typical person who tries and fails these after two weeks and loses $500. Well, the fact is it took us, and we do this a lot when we spent, I don’t even want to say the amounts of millions of dollars that we’ve done this previous businesses or even in this one. It took us a long time and we’re still only getting better at it now, years later to get to a profitable campaign where we knew it would cost us x to get one and we made lot that from that user. It takes time, guys, take it, understand it, learn from it, do a lot of research, and that will make you more educated on the process in the future.

28:43 – Yeah, and I think that’s exactly one of the pitfalls of all of these advances in technology is that gives us almost this false illusion that it’s false illusion that it’s so easy. I should just be able to click buttons and, or you know, talk to Alexa and tell it exactly what to do. But there still is the human component of it and time, like you say, there’s still tweaking and perfecting it.

29:06 – We automated all this, all this stuff, but it is the time component and we’re even trying like ourselves, we don’t have one page we put up at all. You guys come and use it, you know, the fact is it’s iterations, iterations to try and try and try and not only are we doing that for ourselves to build our company, but as we learn the techniques that work, we can automate it for our community. So that’s what we try and work.

29:33 – I see what you’re talking about. I can imagine kind of bug you about this industry, but what else in, in what you see in marketing in general, in your specific niche of that marketing and your automation, what really bugs you about this stuff?

30:01 – Well, no. Socially that can help more people quicker and allow them to get eyeballs in front of our platform who really believes that it will help them. I believe that something that bugged me that are, other networks that we could do a really good job with them, provide the tools to allow us to do that job for other books, which they really should be because we are their salesforce. We are there account management. We are their, everything for the fact is most of these networks, 90, I don’t say that I see 75 percent and above of all their revenue come from the ad and marketing platforms. So why don’t we make it more available to us. I think that technology right now is only ta only. I’m catching up to where we want to go with things and it’s a story we’re only catching onto where technology is going to be in the feature. So there’s a bunch of stuff, but I think the reality is when you want to get something done, you know, actually I have it right here. This is from facebook themselves. There’s nothing that is impossible possible as you said their office. And I liked it so they gave it to me. You know, anything’s possible as well as long as you have the time, effort, energy to want to make that happen.

31:10 – Absolutely. Yep. So, all right, so I’m, my head is spinning. I’m really literally with the possibilities that you just laid out before us. And, definitely offline. There’s a couple of things that I really need to, to chat with you about, but anyway, uh, beyond that, so our audience is looking for this advantage that we’re trying to get about the over the future, so to take what’s in the future and bring it to the present as much as we can and use it to our advantage. We call it the futurist advantage obviously. But what tool or tip do you, would you be able to give the listener in the audience right now, to give them that futurist advantage?

31:55 – Well, that’s a tough question to answer, but I think it goes back to what I said before is, go out there and be part of the community. Speak to the people, listen to them. Gained some information from what you know, I got a lot of us, I think we connected here through listening to podcasts. Originally there’s so many smart people who are willing to talk about what they’re doing. And I would say the biggest advantage that you have is maybe not think of the easiest thing. Don’t think of the hardest thing for playing that middle because those are the biggest markets out there. And I’m not saying anything’s impossible for a few times, but that would be the advantage of watching what is needed, liquids, working other people in the high end of the market and see if you can bring it to the middle of that market.

32:45 – I think the fact is you will see a gap there. Everyone produces for the big boys first because it had the biggest budget budgets. But when you look at it in aggregate, the smaller market is way larger. They’re very attainable. They’re attainable with the dollars that you have or you, that you raised to do it. And they’re not in the long the sales cycles, which is important. You can see some results from what you’re doing right away. So all in all is gain the knowledge. I don’t worry about fear. Take that next step over that line because once the passing of that to it, and always have your ears open and ear to the ground to see what’s coming up next and see how you can focus that in on what you’re working on or how what you’re working on, you can add dots in some way because that’s the way that you come together.

33:34 – You’re not going to be able to do everything. You’ve got to be laser focused on what your angle is, not necessarily the product, but what were, you know, for us, what we’re focused. We have a great service, I guess not a product. We have a great service which is filling the head of a sales funnel, which no one does in the way that we do in an attainable way for this market. But what I’m really trying to do is help small businesses grow. You know that at the end of the day, that’s what we’re looking to grow your business hashtag. And by doing that, we can incorporate an entire platform. So platforms are a way of the future for sure.

34:08 – Wow. So much wisdom and amazing actionable things that people can do in there. I, I love it. Thank you so much for that.

34:17 – Oh, sure. No, it was great speaking to you guys today. And happy to do this another time.

34:22 – Yeah. Great. Well thank you so much and we will hopefully chat again. Definitely. Definitely.

34:30 – Take care. Bye. Bye.