The Marketing Futurist Podcast

Mind-blowing inspiration to create and innovate

This is your futurist advantage!

mary-kathryn-johnson
60

With your hosts:

Mary Kathryn Johnson & Kelly Garrett

Ep 018: Molly Pittman and How Facebook Ads Have a Long Future Ahead

Show Transcript:

01:44 – Hey, they’re marketing futurist. Welcome back to the conversation. You know me, I’m MKJ. You know, Kelly sitting there next to me and I get to introduce you to an amazing lady that we’ve both been able to get into her world and chat with her if you don’t understand or can’t, don’t understand or don’t know who she is on the screen. I don’t know where you been in the years in marketing. This is Molly Pittman and she is a digital marketing expert and educator. She’s The cohost of perpetual traffic digital marketing podcast. Has Been downloaded lots of times, like 3 million. She’s certified thousands of marketers in paid traffic and customer acquisition, and personally, I don’t get this, but personally spent $8,000,000 on paid traffic channels like facebook, Google, twitter while maintaining a positive spin and a positive return on investment. And did I say 8 million or did I miss that number up? Molly, she’s been working. She started at digital marketer as an intern and she’s gonna. Tell us a little bit more about how that changed, but in the meantime, hey there, how you doing molly? Hey guys, so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

03:00 – Way, way to do that, but yeah, things, things for the awesome intro. Thank you everybody for listening. Yeah. I started learning this digital marketing stuff only like six years ago. So if you are new to this or you’re struggling or you’re like, wow, all of these people sound so smart, I’ll never figure out how to do this, do not worry. It is super obtainable. So like Mary Catherine said, I’ve started at digital marketer as an intern and worked my way up to vp of marketing. It was a really great experience and then about a year ago left to start my own company, which is sort of a hodgepodge of different projects I’m working on. So, yeah, it’s been a really, really cool journey and like I said, that shows you how quickly you can learn this stuff and how quickly your life can change. If you just say yes and, work hard. No sleep. Yeah, we get it back. I’m focusing on more now.

04:14 – So molly, what is kind of your sweet spot or your biggest expertise?

04:21 – Definitely facebook ads, so when I was at digital marketer, I was doing organic social media staff, right? So this is in 2012 where you could still, you know, get a lot of traction from organic facebook. So tried to figure out how that worked. And then I went to my boss, Ryan Deiss. I said, Hey Ryan, I’m, I love to try these facebook ads. You know, I, I, I took a course and I feel like, you know, I just want to give it a shot. And so he said, great. He gave me a thousand bucks and he was like, bring me back more money than I gave you a test and then we can keep going from there. And Luckily enough those first few campaigns worked and I just, I loved facebook ads. I still do. There’s something I’m just fascinated with how specific we can get with our targeting, how I, I mean marketing is just putting the right message in front of the right audience and facebook has given us so many tools to be able to do this. So yeah, long story short, facebook ads I think will always be my, my first marketing love and they change their, you know, things are changing every week so there’s always something to learn and something new to test so it never gets old.

05:46 – That’s awesome. And I liked what you said about how, I can’t remember how you phrased it, but it’s the same, it’s about getting the right message in front of the right people. And I mean I think you’re talking about facebook ads. I’m thinking, you know, wow, that’s such a great technology that they’ve put together. Being able to target and segment people in a way that there’s really no other advertising opportunity out there that you can get that specific and granular. And I think people, when they’re starting with facebook ads, they get overwhelmed by that option. But you nailed it because you said it’s really just about getting the right message in front of the right people. And so I liked that, that fact that we have this fantastic technology, but at the end of the day it’s about the people. It’s about the message that you send. Totally. And it’s also, you know, when I teach people facebook targeting, that’s, that’s my favorite topic to teach, uh, when it comes to facebook ads, because it can be very overwhelming, like you kind of have two sides.

06:46 – You either have the people that go into the detailed targeting box and they only think that the little drop downs that you see that those are the only targeting options that exist, right? And then you have the people that start to type in words and they realized that there are probably millions of interests that we could target, right? And then they get super overwhelmed. And what’s cool is, like you said, it’s not necessarily about the tool. The tool is amazing and the tool is amazing because almost every person on the planet gives that tool more data than they give any other tool. So, so the tool is amazing, but like you said, you’ve got to understand who the audience is. And for me, a lot of that goes back to research, right? So, I mean, there are so many interests. You could, you could target it for a certain audience.

07:38 – You just start typing in keywords, but when I’m really looking at an Avatar or a market that I want to get into and reach them on facebook, my research actually starts on Google, right? So I’m searching like top books in that market, top authority figures, events, you know, different, doing research just to figure out what interests should I be targeting. Right. Do these exist on facebook? So yeah, just a quick tip, if you are overwhelmed, a great way to go about that is just to use google to find, you know, where is that audience hanging out in your market? Right? Who are they consuming information from? Are they joining together in communities, whether that’s forums or blogs or in person events. And once you make a list of those, I just go over and try to match them and facebook and see, you know, there’s usually an interest for, you know, a big, a big topic people are talking about.

08:37 – So sorry, I kind of went on a tangent there, but I think it’s important for people to understand the capability but also realize that you know, if you’re going into the yoga market, you don’t want to hop into facebook and type yoga and target 40 million people right off bat, get specific with, oh my gosh, I love it. So no, I love that tangent because it also shows us that we’re not a, you don’t need to be even with, even though you’re doing facebook ads, you don’t need to be so micro. I’m specific on just facebook even though we know that’s not micro, it’s a huge environment. But we can look at other platforms like Google, like, I mean people do do things on other platforms besides facebook even though we don’t think they do because we live on facebook. I know three of us do.

09:35 – So thinking about that, facebook ads that just really we’re talking about acquisition when we’re talking about facebook ads and then we do things, we take those people on different adventures once they come into our world and you’ve spent that money to get them into your world and then obviously you want to make more on the other side, but there’s a messy middle that goes on between those two places. What’s your favorite? A messy middle. What’s your favorite communication that you use? Communicate communication tool that you use once you’ve got that person’s attention from an ad, definitely messenger, especially if it’s from a facebook ad, because you know, if they’re using the facebook platform, they’re probably using facebook messenger and it’s number one. It’s so easy for the end user. Of course. I’m sure you guys have talked a ton about a messenger here on the, on the show, but, there’s just so much flexibility, such ease of use on both sides for the consumer and for us as the marketer.

10:36 – And you can really gather the information you need from that person while still giving them value to provide that adventure that you’re talking about, right? Because that’s where it becomes difficult. You can acquire, you can acquire people and they might all be interested in yoga, but they could be interested in very different parts of Yoga, right? Or they could be, they could be interested in very different parts of your business, right? It’s a yoga educator, if you had a studio or you know, whatever services you’re offering. So, you know, we used to just have email and, you know, retargeting through facebook or display and that was cool and we could use some customized adventures for these people, right? Maybe based off of a lead magnet they downloaded or some sort of action that they took that informed us of, okay, there, but we can take them down this path.

11:32 – But really we didn’t have the complexity that we do have now in messenger for that messy middle. So, that’s definitely my favorite way to follow up and engaged, keep them excited. And then when the conversion is ready to happen, messengers just teed that right up. You. Isn’t that amazing? Don’t you love it, right? And changing every day, just like your facebook ads. Right? So with that, I mean facebook ads, I know so many people who say they do facebook ads and you can. There are so many moving parts to that. That understanding and changing and adapting and iterating is key. What, what are some of the mistakes that you made or the difficulties that you found in specifically taking the facebook ads and using messenger as that adventure? What are some of the most difficult times? Well, I mean, I think number one is tracking.

12:34 – I think marketers, let me tell you just a quick story. I had a call earlier this week with a guy who does marketing for movies and he was telling me about this complex system that they’ve created to, to track, but it’s still really hard to say, oh, this human is sitting in this movie theater in Oklahoma because they heard my radio ad or they saw my facebook ad and you know, he kind of told me in a way like, you like super direct response, digital marketers, you guys are spoiled, you know, you have an unrealistic expectation of tracking. And I agree with him and in a huge way, but I’ll have clients that are like, they want tracking down to the penny of what’s happening. And I totally understand that, right? That’s what we all want. But there’s obviously more complexity to that than any of us understand.

13:35 – So I think one of the biggest challenges I’ve had connecting ads with messenger has just been the ability to prove the results or to track the results or because there is that messy middle. I love that you said that. And when someone goes into messenger now, it’s still kind of is a black hole, right? There are ways that you could track from the ad to maybe a purchase that they made. If they went from an ad, went through a flow in messenger, then they went over to your site and purchase like yes, you could track that, but that, that middle is still very messy and I know the tools like mini chat and facebook itself or working towards better tracking and better metrics and we will get there. But I think that’s been a tough spot for a lot of us and mostly not necessarily maybe for us as early adapters, but when I’m talking to bigger companies or people that I know, brands that I know would be amazing on messenger, but they need to be convinced that is definitely a barrier to entry for sure.

14:46 – And then I think another one is just again, we’re still in the early adopter phase, right? Like we as early adapters feel like we’re in the late phase, we’re not. And what I mean by that is more from the consumer side. Right? So some issues that I’ve had going from ad into messenger is just that, especially older generations or people that aren’t as tech savvy, they are confused as can be when they get into messenger, even with good instructions. Right. Simple things like you ask a question and you want them to click on a button to go to the next message, but they’re typing their answer. Right. So just a little things like that that are just the nature of this being so new.

15:36 – Right? Yeah. And I like what you said about us feeling like, you know, I think that that is old for us. I think most of the listeners here are futurists and they think, you know, ahead. And so for those of us who have been using messenger for two years now, it feels like it’s a really old, you know, I hope that’s been around forever. Like you’re not doing this exactly. Yeah, exactly. But I think I have to stop myself and say, you know what? A majority of businesses don’t get it. They don’t know. They’ve probably haven’t even heard of it. So it’s important to kind of reframe that. And really go back to the basics with them and not, and then a step further from the businesses, the actual consumers, like I’m from Kentucky and when I go back, it’s definitely not the most futuristic state.

16:29 – I’ll go back and people ask what I do and I tell them about facebook messenger and they use facebook messenger. But the idea that brands are going to start communicating with them through messenger, that is mind blowing. That is a new topic for them. So, you know, we’ve always got to keep in mind where the people are, with things because they’re the ones we’re marketing to.

16:54 – So even with that, what you were just talking about, I love what you talked about with tracking and how some companies really want to get down to the nitty gritty and every single penny and track it. And then we have on the other side, um, that sometimes we don’t know whether that person, we can’t count that that person either did or didn’t see it. Add a separate ad from messenger going or else. And now they’re in Messenger. Do we count those as sale from that ad? We count them because they’re in messenger. Do we know that they went actually in purchased. We know we sent them to that page, but we don’t know where on the end and all of these places that people are seeing the company’s information, we can’t really separate it out. So, you know, obviously we don’t want competition between people in Messenger, a messenger marketers let’s say, and facebook ads agencies. I’m kind of looking, well that’s my person.

17:50 – It’s about this ecosystem. And Are we utilizing it to the best of our ability for our clients and the journey and just realizing too. Just one more quick thing on that. I had a client who was wanting to measure messenger as a direct response channel. So you know, we spend $5,000 on ads and you know, we make $5,000 back, right? And I’ve warned him against this because I said, you know, hey, buddy, view will get sales from this, but you also have to remember that you are building a completely new channel, right? This is a completely new media channel for your company. It’s like the people that a built blogs 10 years ago that, at the time couldn’t say every blog post that I’m publishing is, you know, making millions of dollars for my business, but now they have a ton of organic traffic that they’re still benefiting from. So you know, messenger obviously functions in a different way, but you have to keep the perspective that you’re building a new communication channel and metrics that I like to measure are things like cost per subscriber, right? Like, Hey, we spend $20,000, we have 20,000 subscribers. That’s a dollar per subscriber. That’s great, right? That’s cheaper than, than most email acquisition. So I’m just having that mindset around it. It can be used to sell things, but it’s much more than that. So don’t do messenger a disjustice by trying to make it just a channel that it’s not, it’s more than that.

19:32 – Okay. And you have to think about, it depends on what you’re selling. If you’re thinking about selling a two or a $5,000 product, you don’t want to necessarily sell that through chat or people don’t want to buy that through chat. They’re going to want to actually speak voice to what, you know face to face or over Roy to someone to purchase that. So it’s, it’s helping you get the sale. You don’t necessarily need to count on that channel exactly. To get the sale right.

20:00 – And understanding that warming up the sale is as important as, you know, maybe then you send them an email and they buy in that moment. But Messenger is the one that educated them for three months for that. So yeah, yeah. All feel passionate about this. Kelly and I have to kind of like, okay, we gotta go, you know, when we’re talking about this, but um, but you know, taking that from a metric and analytics and then going to the adventure and then down to what you also talked about with some of these people where it is still so new. I mean, I think less than a five percent or less of all marketers. I mean, we are digital so we know that manychat and Messenger and everything exists, but all them are the marketers in a lot of these companies across all the and countries, they, they really don’t even know this exists still and and that’s just the marketers now we look at the individual consumer or the person that might be taken the adventure with this company and like you said, we’ve got to educate them to push buttons and to take this adventure.

21:03 – It’s such in the early stages. How do we overcome some of those obstacles with the expectations so high from the company side and the consumer side? Clueless. I mean there’s a huge gap between those two. Huge, huge gap. I mean, I think number one, it’s education on both sides, right? It’s when that client told me, I want this to be a direct response channel, I said, hey buddy, okay, let’s, let’s think about this in a bigger and a different way, right? So there’s still a lot of hype around Messenger and you can make money with messenger, but I think step one is us educating other marketers, other business owners.

21:42 – Not with, you know, definitely with excitement, but maybe less hype. Right. I think when messenger came out it was like a bunch of how much money you people may have using it and that’s really powerful, but it’s on us to also show other benefits of the tool. Right. And I think that goes the other way too to the consumers. I tried to be as clear and instructional as possible, you know, from the facebook ad all the way through the flow, you know, to make sure they know exactly what to do. Right. So it seems silly, but hey, click the button below. Don’t type in your answer, right? That the Bot won’t understand, you know, so just a lot of common sense education on both sides, both sides of it honestly. And time. A lot of this takes time. Yeah. And speaking of time, since we’re talking about the future, so thinking about this and we’re, we’re in this world, where, what do you think is, is coming in the future of marketing and whether you want to look at just marketing or also marketing and technology, because even though this is a new tool, a chat bot, it really is just a new delivery method for the commerce.

22:55 – Oh, totally. So what do you think is coming? Yeah, I mean, I think marketing always follows technology. Everyone’s following the consumer. So whatever technology the consumer is going to adopt a, that is where marketers need to be, right? That’s why messengers powerful. I didn’t become interested in messenger just because I think it’s interesting. You know, I became interested in messenger because that’s where the consumers are. Facebook open the flood gate to let us market awesome, right? We as marketers follow technology. And honestly I don’t, I’m not completely sure, but I know things are just going to continue to become more virtual, right? So things like virtual reality, I mean, but being able to sit with you guys right now in a virtual room even though we’re all in different places and you know, I’ve got this cool water bottle here and you’re like, molly, I love that water bottle, you know, where did you get it and you to be able to scan or click or whatever the technology is to go and learn more about this.

24:07 – I mean I think that’s where things are going. Does that make sense? Just just we are becoming more virtual and that’s why the human connection and not losing touch with you are marketing to other humans. Right? The mediums are going to change as, as time progresses. I can’t wait to see where we are in 50 years, you know, but you can’t lose sight of the human. But I definitely know we’re going to just a more virtual world. I mean think about where things were 20 years ago. We definitely wouldn’t have been recording a show like this.

24:47 – And you know, as you say that I think it’s really interesting too, to look back over history and see how we’ve kind of gone from, you know, in the early 19 hundreds, mid 19 hundreds, even to sixties, seventies, it was all face to face you, you need to physically be in front of a person to sell something. And then with the birth of technology then it became less and less human contact and we thought that was really cool marketers and email.

25:19 – Oh I can, I can set up an ATM on my homepage and get people to buy when I’m sleeping. And now it’s like we’re shifting back to that, you know, now we’re going back to the personal side of things. And I just think that’s really cool how it’s almost like we took this pause and shifted over to less personal. But now we’re realizing it’s really about personal connection.

25:42 – Well, that’s because of the humans and again, the consumers. I mean, the world is in a pretty scary place right now. Like, I’m an eternal optimist and I’m, you know, I’m not worried, but it’s very obvious that, you know, depression and anxiety and just what we’re facing as humans because of the technology. People are starting to realize that, right? So that’s why we’re going back closer to, uh, to what we know really matters, right? While still embracing the technology. But yeah, in 10 years, the thought of US getting on a zoom call like this will probably be pretty silly.

26:23 – Your, your picture of being in a virtual room, the three of us doing this interview and you showing us the water bottle. I mean, I could, I just saw exactly that. And there are things that, let’s say the person who’s watching us, they could take their mouse or their finger, whatever device they’re going to be using to scan this and they could go and they could push or click on that water bottle and have an immediate link to be able to go buy the thing. So that’s a sponsor of the show, right? Or maybe it shows up at their house in five minutes via drone. That’s crazy, right? Possible. Totally. And we’ll all be having these conversations while laying back in our chairs with our headset. Exactly. It doesn’t matter each other. I could, but I think what’s in. I think what is good about this though, is that ans technology, progress’s transparency, there’s so much transparency in the world now, which I love. And so the good thing about this and you know, people are like, oh, humans are becoming more disconnected, more disconnected. That’s your choice, right? As a human, like you get used how connected or disconnected you become. But the technology is creating transparency, which I love because the best products or service services will be able to win again. Right. Where back in the direct response days, back in the early days on the web, I mean, you could get away with anything, you could sell anything.

28:06 – Then we started having reviews. So now you know, there’s this feedback and that will only continue. So I think that’s a positive for sure. Oil salesmen have been around for Millennia, so. Yeah, exactly. And they always find a way to win. So what mark, what makes you, what, what, pitfalls then? So you’ve talked about a positive lens of transparency, but what pitfalls do you think are, are coming with this future? Well, I mean the, the biggest pitfall is just the addiction to technology and that double edge sword of. I mean you have to exercise great will power to not be sucked into technology nowadays. Right? I mean think about it. Facebook, every online platform or APP are building to make time for you to spend more time. Oh, you know, in their platform because that’s how they make more money. Literally building, you know, our iphones, our build so that when someone sends us a message, like we become very excited by that.

29:14 – And so I mean that is the other side of this. I think that we’re already seeing a lot of the addiction to technology as humans that is causing that disconnect we talked about. So that will always be a part of this I think, unfortunately. But it’s just something you have to be aware of, like you are in control of that. And I think once people realize that, then it’s like put restrictions on yourself. As hard as that can be. A, but it’s so important. I wonder if we’ll see a surge of college degrees in psychology and more and more counselors coming out because of the technology addiction. Oh, I think so. And I think because of social media, people are becoming more comfortable talking about their feelings, which are great. Like you see so many people talking about difficult issues. I think that’s leading to a huge opening up of the four psychologists or in the whole spiritual realm or self help and life coaches and people helping each other.

30:17 – Absolutely. So I have a question I wrote down earlier, so kind of back to the facebook and thing, where do you see the future of facebook ads going? Because you know, there’s a lot of talk about an increase in demand if more people are using it, there’s less newsfeed and, and it’s kinda saturated. So where do you see that going? Yeah, good question. I mean, as more people use facebook more often, like you said, supply and demand, facebook is and will continue to go in a direction where you have to be a really good marketer with a good product or service to win. And that’s what I love about it, you know, the introduction of the relevance score a few years ago, I’ve noticed that usually when I have a failing ad or campaign nowadays, it’s because it’s not getting much social proof, right? Like the consumers aren’t showing that they’re enjoying that experience.

31:10 – So facebook’s going to continue to show preference to advertisers who are providing an experience for consumers that they actually enjoy. Right? Even though it’s an advertisement. So that will continue to be for sure. And facebook’s also gonna continue to gobble up more inventory, right? I mean think about this is why Messenger is a marketing channel now. It’s why whatsapp, you know, is starting to be to become a marketing channel. So, you know, it’s why facebook bought instagram. It’s, you know, and, and, and so, although we are using more, facebook is so proactive and acquiring those, those new avenues, right? So whatever, you know, I saw a demo of their virtual reality room that we would sit in and their example was they had like a bottle of wine on the table that someone scanned, well facebook is not just about facebook isn’t just what you see right now in the newsfeed, right? Facebook isn’t just tagging, facebook is a technology company, so they are going to be responsible for a lot of this new technology that we have been, you know, dreaming of. And then therefore there will be, you know, ways to advertise there too. Absolutely. And then also their whole purpose is connecting people so they stay true to.

32:39 – Then every single technology that they push forward will always come back to human in human interaction. Exactly. Which is what marketing is all about, which is what businesses are all about, which is what people are all about. And which is why we love facebook. So much. Love, hate relationship. Sorry, I have to say it depends on the day. It’s the white elephant in the room, the level. What drives you nuts about this industry? What drives you nuts about marketing and all of these things that we’ve been talking about?

33:13 – Oh, I’m just, of course people that think that they can use marketing just to, you know, marketing as a way to make money with no thought of the end user or what value they’re adding to their life. I mean, that’s really it. And a lot of that comes from what the marketing industry is telling them to. So it is also a shame on gurus or people that promise things that aren’t realistic for most people. It drives me absolutely nuts when I go to sell a course or hop on a podcast, my promises, I want to give you information that helps you become a better marketer. Right? But if you’re promising people things that most of them can’t achieve, that’s not valuable for any party involved. So that really drives me crazy. I think that the marketing industry, just over the six years that I’ve seen it, has grown up a lot. There were a lot more women, which is exciting. There’s a lot more transparency. Again, I’m into what people are doing, so I think that holds others accountable. But yeah, just deception in terms of deceiving the consumer, right? About a product or service or deceiving other marketers to think that they can achieve things that aren’t realistic. That drives me nuts.

34:45 – And, and honestly, I think some of it is absolutely intentional, but I think some of it happens unintentionally to, you know, going back to how we were talking about a for us, we’re, we’re early adopters of things. So, we feel like it’s been around forever. I think that happens when you are living and breathing marketing every day. You sometimes forget to take a step back and tell people we’ll wait a second. These are just the results that I got. Exactly. It doesn’t mean you’re going to get those results and it’s more important to focus on the strategy. So I think it’s always a balance.

35:23 – And I love like, you know, I had a podcast episode that’s like how I generated 175,000 leads or something from facebook and that is good because that gets people’s attention, right? But then the first thing I say, this is different for every business, but I’m going to teach you how I did it so that you can replicate it for you. So yeah, yeah, I, I, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with, you know, showing results or show or being proud of what you did. I just, I think, and I just think honesty is, you know, as marketers, what are we doing? We’re persuading other people to do something. So there is a huge gray area that will always be. And you know, it’s just good to be aware of. Exactly.

36:12 – Absolutely. So we talk about on this show, we try and give our listeners what we call a futurist advantage. So we have all been in the messenger world. You’ve been in the facebook ads world, in our facebook ecosystem. We’ve talked about Google, we’ve been in that youtube, I mean all the other social platforms and everything else we use email to, to market products and services. But looking into the future and the things we’ve talked about, what do you think, how can you help our listeners get a futurist advantage? Not just to make more money, but to become better marketers and use the tools and the technology and the marketing practices that are here currently in are coming.

36:59 – So do you want like a tool or a tip or anything kind of a tip or tool? Anything you think you can tell them and I think you’ve. You’ve pretty much already alluded to a lot of the things that you use to necessarily get ahead but to have an advantage for your clients, for, for their businesses and for their prospects and yeah.

37:19 – Yeah, really good question. I tell people I’m a detective, like as a marketer, I’m actually not creating much new ride. I am a detective and I really believe that. And I think if people can adopt that mindset, it becomes a lot less scary. And what I mean by that is, you know, once you understand the avatars in a business and who you’re selling to, you need to come one step away from becoming that person. If you really want to be a good marketer, right? Because think about it that you’re just trying, like I said, to persuade them to do something, but you can’t do that if you don’t understand their current frame of mind, their values, what they care about, what their day to day life is, what they’re scared of, what they’re excited about. You know, most people when they think about who they’re marketing to, their like, oh, women over the age of 50.

38:25 – I’m like, that is lame. Like we have access to so much more information now all you need to do is go into forums that market read. What are they talking to each other about? Go to Amazon. What are products that they’re buying in that market? Read the reviews, right? What keywords are they using? What do they, what do they actually care about? Right. How do they express that? And if you can figure it, go into facebook groups just, you know, be a detective blogs. And you know, when I bring on a new client, I spend at least 10 to 20 hours doing that for that particular market. If I’m not already that market right or it’s just going to be tough. All of the Tactical Chat Bot web funnel, copywriting, none of it matters if you don’t first understand a really who that person is past the demographic crap, you know, there, there’s so much more to a person.

39:30 – So that is, that’s what I found to be most helpful in marketing. Absolutely. That’s awesome. Yes. And so what I understand you to say is ask more questions, dig, dig in, dig a little deeper, and usually the client or the business isn’t going to have all those answers. Absolutely. It’s usually what they haven’t been able to do, but it’s the client. Think about there are some people that you see ads for their brand and you’re like, Ooh, that looks really bad. And like, oh, what are they doing? But it’s working really well because they just know what their market wants. They’re like, yeah, I’ve been selling shoes at my shoe store for 30 years. I know the conversation that happens. Right? So just to figure that out because if you don’t figure that out, the tactics and all of the stuff that we like to get excited about, it’s just not gonna work.

40:32 – So, yeah. And, and that’s fun. I think as marketers we’re parks were part psychologist too, for sure. It’s, it’s fun. That is really fun. I find that really fun just to be able to dive into this world. And that’s the learning part. Not only do you get to learn about people in this particular market, but then you get to learn about what technologies and tools do you think not going to implement to actually fulfill the, the result, whatever it is. I mean, it’s, it’s constantly changing. There’s no do this every single time. It just doesn’t exist that way. No, no, it doesn’t at all. And it will continue to change at an even more rapid pace. So you’ve got to keep that anchor. Like the best marketers that I know are really good with other humans. They’re interested in other humans. They’re good communicators and they just really like people. And if you think about it that way, you know that you can always be a good marketer even when the technology’s changing because you can learn that technology easy, right? If, if you have that core understanding.

41:44 – Wow, what a great conversation. Thank you. So Molly, where can people get in touch with you?

41:56 – So you can find me on facebook. I’m actually starting to create some public figure profiles like a big girl now. Should be up soon or you can follow me, my personal account on facebook. My Agency website is digital strategy bootcamps.com. So if you do want a high level strategy or me to help with a part of your business, you can reach out there. And my email’s molly, molly pittman.com. If you just have a question, I try to get back to as many people as I can, but I love hearing from people. So yeah, feel free to reach out if there’s a way I can help you.

42:36 – Okay, cool. We’ll post all of that in the show notes as well. Great. Thanks so much for spending this time. We really have been very grateful to pick your brain and to have you share a really what we’ve been finding out, which is technology is amazing, but the marketing best practices stay the same. It’s still human to human, so thank you for keeping us grounded.

42:59 –  Thank you guys. Thanks for doing the show and for having me on.

43:02 – Awesome.